My African Aesthetic
This podcast is part of My African Aesthetic.
On this Podcast, we shed light on the central and important roles Africans themselves have had, have and will have in creating sustainable neighborhoods and communities around the globe.
Our work centers African Aesthetics, African design philosophy and placemaking. We do this through dialogue, project work, research, documentation and education.
This podcast features thoughtful, constructive and reflective conversations with architects, artists, curators, designers, creatives, activists, innovators, community leaders and African design enthusiasts.
We hope this podcast helps you expand and deepen your knowledge on African aesthetics, African design philosophy and placemaking and its role in creating inclusive and sustainable communities in Africa and beyond.
https://www.myafricanaesthetic.com/
My African Aesthetic
5.3. Peter Fongod: Cameroon. Norway
In an engaging conversation with Peter Fongod, we trace his journey from the oil and gas industry to the world of real estate investment. We talk about the emotional rollercoaster of career shifts from oil and gas to real estate; and the hurdles of starting anew which led to the birth of FolksEiendom. He also sheds light on the broader themes of economic opportunities within the African diaspora, highlighting the potential for growth when embracing new ventures. We talk about the evolving landscape of real estate investment for Africans in the diaspora/Norway. He advocates for leveraging resources and collective efforts, drawing parallels with other immigrant communities who successfully build wealth. Beyond financial gains, the conversation touches upon raising children with diverse backgrounds and the power of community and parental involvement in children's activities, reinforcing the value of nurturing relationships and life skills beyond traditional academic settings.
Recorded: 31.10.2024
https://www.folkseiendom.no/
Instagram: @myafricanaesthetic
Website: https://www.myafricanaesthetic.com/
Welcome to my African Aesthetic. On this podcast, we shed light on the central and important roles Africans themselves have had, have and will have in creating sustainable neighborhoods and communities in Africa and around the globe African design philosophy and African placemaking. We do this through dialogue, project work, research, documentation and education. This podcast features thoughtful, constructive and reflective conversations with architects, artists, curators, designers, creatives, activists, innovators, community leaders and African design enthusiasts. I hope this podcast helps you expand and deepen your knowledge on African aesthetics, african design philosophy and placemaking, and its role in creating inclusive and sustainable communities in Africa and beyond. Thank you for tuning in. Welcome wherever you're listening from.
Speaker 1:This is episode three of season five and you're listening to my African Aesthetic, the podcast. Today's guest is Peter Fungod. He lives here in Oslo and has varied experience, from oil and gas to real estate, and a family man, a businessman, a marathon runner, who believes in parents' engagement in their children's lives, whether it is through sport, culture or traveling, and its importance in creating belonging and engagement in the communities that we find ourselves in in the diaspora. He's the founder of Folks Eindom and hopefully we will get time to talk about that too Real estate and the African diaspora in Norway and how to get in, and the African diaspora in Norway and how to get in. So I'm very, very glad to have Peter on the podcast and I hope you two will enjoy this conversation. Welcome to the podcast, peter.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, Eunice.
Speaker 1:And what an introduction, but no lies have been told, so, anyways, I would like to get to know you better. And how about we start with your middle name? There is always something in the name, so what does your name mean? Is there a story behind it?
Speaker 2:I hope there's a good story behind it. My middle name, samgwa, is a very typical Balinyonga name, meaning it's a name that's given to twin, so I'm a twin. If they are twin boys, they are called Samgwa and Samjela, and if it's girls it's Nagwa and Nagela. And, to be more specific, the Samgwa means the eldest of the twin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you are the eldest.
Speaker 2:I'm the eldest A couple of seconds or hours the name Kongot. The family is a huge family. It's a dynasty, and my grandfather is a sub-chief of the Bali clan, so he passed away in 2021. We are actually planning his celebration in coming December, where I'm sitting in the planning committee executive board, so it is. We are expecting about a thousand guests, so so, so this is uh, this is something uh big in our in in our family, you know and I'd imagine this is also a huge opportunity to to teach your children about your culture in africa.
Speaker 1:When you ask someone who are you, in a way you're asking them to recite their lineage when that question is asked. It is not a very individual question. Actually. They're more interested in which clan, which chief which lineage are you from?
Speaker 2:you know?
Speaker 1:That name? I know it. Is it from the West or the East? Oh yeah, so you're this clan and you're in this tribe. So I'm very glad that, even in this conversation right here, that we get to dive into such an important part of identity. So, when we are talking about identity and tracing back who we are, but also how we pass this on to our children, especially when we are in the diaspora, what do you think about this? How is that for you?
Speaker 2:For me, when it comes to identity, for example, I always think about how I could transfer this to my kids and there are 50-50 Norwegian Cameroon kids and we travel periodically to Cameroon for them, to show them and for them to experience Africa themselves we have been to Cape Town and Cameroon and also for them to feel this diversity that they are born with. You know, and they know that it has a lot of advantage there's a germ in this of knowing this diversity that they are born with so that's, that's the identity.
Speaker 2:I think I would like to. It's not like I want them to be Cameroonian or I want them to be Norwegian. I'm just giving them the exposure for them to see. So that is important to highlight this.
Speaker 1:Where in Cameroon do you come from?
Speaker 2:I come from originally. My family come from the northwest, but I grew up in the southwest that's in the coastal region, in a town called Limbe. It's a small touristic fishing town also, so yeah, that's where I grew up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What are your best memories of growing up there?
Speaker 2:Best memories about Limbe is, I would say it's the ability that we, after school maybe, we go to the seaside and help the fishermen. Sometimes they will give us some fish when we help them and we'll pick some coconuts that the ocean has pushed them from the islands to the shore side, or maybe from the banks to the shore side, and also wood and firewood. At that time there were quite a lot of tourists coming in and we yeah, sometimes you see the tourists, you talk to them and those type of things.
Speaker 1:those are the memories I have uh, one would wonder, from such a beautiful childhood, how did you end up here?
Speaker 2:um journey to uh to norway, but I would like to go back to that childhood again before coming to norway I like that yes, why? Why? Because it's not all that roses, as we say. Beautiful childhood it was very beautiful in one way, but I, I, when my father died 1985 add to that childhood thing.
Speaker 2:We were moved to the village and my mother lives in the village. We moved there. We moved there. That was 1985. And it was really nice.
Speaker 2:I think the main aspect here was to live closer to the families.
Speaker 2:But it comes with its own challenge, because my mom has lived in the southwest, doing her own business, having her own network, and we were moved to this area. In the village, when we wake up, we go to school, she will go to farm to cultivate food. During this period, after maybe about one or two years, I think, my twin brother got injured in his leg and went to and they were moved to another town where he was being treated. My mother moved with him and I became the, you would say, the father of the house at the age of was it nine, ten? So that was very interesting in the sense that one became, you know, a bit of responsible at that age. We wake up, cook our own food, and this went on for many, many months. This went on for many, many months and I recall my other sister came and visited a couple of times and she, she, she took us. She said to us that we, we would, that she would we are going for holidays, doing school holidays, but we never came back.
Speaker 2:I think she just thought, like you know, my mother cannot live in this condition because she has her own network down there. And yeah, so that's just to paint that picture of that childhood of beautiful Limbe. And then yeah, the other part side of it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Did your mother get to go back to the south?
Speaker 2:Yes, she did.
Speaker 1:She did so with us and we never went back to the village, so yeah, I like that you took me back and you quote me immediately, because how we tell a story also affects how people perceive us, especially when people look at us sometimes as people who, in quotes, have achieved a certain level of success and kind of we choose to be blind to the work that they had to do, but also the struggle. You know the struggle side of their story, definitely. So I wonder why the abrupt change, why your mom suddenly had to move back? Could it have been because your dad was the breadwinner and your mom was happily you know, happily raising the family in the background but also doing her small things? And was it because the responsibilities suddenly just were overwhelming that she needed support?
Speaker 2:I think I've, never, I don't know. Sometimes I think I ask my elder sister what happened that we moved. I think you would look at it more like it's a cultural thing where, because we're nine siblings and I'm the second to the last, so by moving us to the village was more like coming close to the family. It's a cultural thing to help support but people. I think in the modern context, if you look at it, it was really nice during the olden days, but if you look at the network that someone has already formed where they are growing up all the kids, our school it was abandoned. So I think that it was more on the cultural part and no one looked at it. How, how challenging it could be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I guess my sisters they were just my sister they thought, like my mom cannot live like this. Yeah, it's not, uh, someone that has been doing her own business, doing her own thing and then moved to be cultivated. It's very different to be a farmer or to be a hawker. That's how easy I can put it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you lived in cape town and you studied there, right?
Speaker 2:that's correct, yes, correct yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how was that transition Then? How did you end up in Norway? That was a question that drove us to you, tyler. How did you end up in Norway?
Speaker 2:Good question. I moved to Cape Town in 1999 and I was studying electric engineering and during this time I met my ex Carrie. She came a couple of times and visited me in Cape Town when I was studying During that period of time. Also coincidentally, I was an oil company called Schlumberger came to the university to do some recruitment and a lot of people applied. I was one of those that were recruited and brought to Norway, to Aska, specific in Skandik Hotel, where we were staying, and that was to have their own special training program. So I was there doing this program and at that time during the weekend Carrie will come to visit me and it was really tough program where, although you were being hired, you you have to actually pass. You have exam every Monday. So some people were sent back because they didn't make the process. I managed and went through that tiny hole.
Speaker 2:Kari came to visit and then, uh, I was working five weeks on off, offshore, in different parts of the world you can say almost all the continents, many different countries. Each time I finish work I'll come to know where sometimes go to cameroon and the relationship built up with carrie. And then uh, yeah, and the rest is history.
Speaker 1:What lessons, just like two, three lessons, would did you learn? Business lessons, career lessons? You know cause? You've talked about that intensive course, for example. So any, any quick things that you remember that you took away from your, your 10 years plus in in oil and gas, away from your 10 years plus in oil and gas.
Speaker 2:The things that I take away is the first time I joined a seismic vessel. I remember one of the team leader, or my mentor, said to me when we're repairing some equipment at the back deck we call it back deck he said to me Peter, there's one thing you should know is remember, in offshore there's no shops to buy things. You have to take care of things, and the ability of knowing that almost nothing is impossible because if you are out there, it's just a seismic vessel under cool. You have to make things work.
Speaker 2:It's just a seismic vessel and that crew. You have to make things work and at the same time, you have, for example, we had a crew of about maybe 50, 60 persons and about 20 different nationalities Russian, ukrainians, cameroonians. So that aspect of acceptance, diversity I was exposed to this and which is a fantastic thing. So sometimes when you go around and people are saying this, this or these people or whatever you say that it's not really what I've experienced, because they're very nice people. Also, the aspect of traveling you learn quite a lot just by traveling different airports, different cities, remote areas, seeing different cultures.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, those are the things that I can take with me. So, with this fantastic career that you've had and all these beautiful experiences, of course there must be some setbacks also or some things that didn't work with with you and who you were. Why, why did you switch? Switch from oil and gas?
Speaker 2:In 2016,. During the oil crisis, I was one of those that lost their job. It was very tough to find work in Norway during that time. A lot of people change careers. I have a lot of friends now from the same industry oil and gas that have moved to different industries. So at that time I've started with my MBA. That time I've started with my MBA. I also my first son, lebga, who is 15 years old.
Speaker 2:I had him and then it was like we had a very good package from our company. I think it was about a year or just less than a year salary or so, so that was. It was very lucrative. So what I did is I went and rented an office and wake up every morning and went there from eight to four, sometimes even longer, studying this MBA, applying for jobs, doing other things, just that I don't want to sit at home. So during this period, I managed to finish the MBA, and then I said to myself what do I really want to do? What am I burning for? And I realized that I'm more attracted to the real estate after putting all my cats on the table. And I think this is also due to the fact that when my father died in 1985, he had built in that Limbe where we grew up. If you recall, during my childhood we moved to the village and we moved back to to limbe my father has built this, uh, single rooms houses where he was renting it and he was renting it out.
Speaker 2:So so I saw the power of power of this one. We went, we were on on holiday, and I recall a potential tenant came to my mom and says here is the deposit I want to rent. And my mom said go and bring it, come back the next day. I'm like, come on, mommy, you are not a businesswoman. You have a potential rental person here and you don't want to accept it. Not that she doesn't want to accept it, but it was more like, you know, it's more like a camaraderie type of thing, more than business, you know. So I saw and this is a wooden house that I don't think we have ever painted it. There are still people knocking at the door every day to rent it, and yeah, so I realized that it is real estate is something that I'm burning for. And then came the birth of folks and them.
Speaker 1:How long after you were laid off did you come up finally with this idea of starting Folks Eindom Like?
Speaker 2:was it three months, four months, I think, maybe six months to almost, maybe six, eight months, I think.
Speaker 2:So it was an intense process of both MBA, but also just like sitting with yourself and figuring out where do I go next and you know what move should I make that's true, and I think what one of the thing that actually really hit it hard and I says that's it, I'm not going to apply for a job anymore is it's like um uh, every Friday you get this message oh, we, we're sorry, you know, it's like crazy, you know. I'm like why do you want to spoil my weekend? You know?
Speaker 1:Friday, why not Sunday?
Speaker 2:Monday.
Speaker 1:Then I have the whole week to, like you know, do something about it.
Speaker 2:And then I recall I had an interview. I applied for a job in a huge bank in Norway. So I had an interview with them first, second, and I think they called me for third interview and I was in Sanofi in the heat. I remember on the way after the second interview they called me Before I even reached the holiday house. They were telling me that you should come for the third. And then I think the last point is I don't know if maybe I convinced the person. I didn't convince the person that much that I'm going to stay, because I recall they were talking about like, okay, why are you leaving this oil and gas with lucrative salary and coming to the banking sector? But anyway, it didn't happen. I didn't go the job.
Speaker 1:So from there I just thought, like you know, this is it we also see that it kind of informs how you you move forward, you know, in in your life, both in your career and business, but also with your family. So I would like us to go over to real estate but also general questions about real estate and Africans in the diaspora. I know that folks I know is into different things, but you could tell us maybe briefly, before we go into questions that are specific to the diaspora, what is folks' eindom?
Speaker 2:Folks' eindom. The name itself means the people's property. And how did I come up with that is? I read about Ubus. Before I do something, I like to research a bit, so I read all how UBUS started. So I thought to myself like you know real estate, coming from where I am looking at my background people need a place to stay. We can build houses, good quality houses, by being efficient. We don't have to be inefficient, making things expensive along the way which end up to the end user, and that's why we are very critical in terms of efficiency and delivery. So, yeah, we started by flipping properties and then we moved to development, where we buy a property with potentials and then we rent out the existing house, possibly demarcate part of the plot and then sell them. And then, yeah, so we have different investors in the company and, yeah, ready to partner with new investors if possible.
Speaker 1:So what are your general observations on Africans' outlook on real estate in the diaspora? Maybe Norway to be specific, but also, if you want to speak generally, like owning or renting or how we go about it?
Speaker 2:Very few Africans when we started about when was that? Eight years ago that I feel Africans? I would talk initially before people were very scared because our culture we're not like, we're not used to taking loans and people are very scared. You hear someone would say, no, you know what, I don't have any loan, you know. It's like come on, the loan is there for you to use it, you know, and it depends what you want to take the loan for.
Speaker 2:So that makes people not to invest in real estate and also sometimes, another part is that people tend to invest in their country of origin instead of where they are living and with this, leaves you with less resources to juggle around where you are living. I think so. So I would hope that the dynamics has started changing, because I've got a lot of calls where people want me to help them to purchase property, or maybe some tips and tricks, and I've helped a number of people. So the dynamics is changing. People started seeing the importance of investing in real estate and an important aspect here is this is hard facts, data that exists 30% already achieve certain financial goals before you that have nothing. So that is Norwegian data that was presented. So these are hard facts, so we need to do something, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking about what you just said. We love to invest in our country of origin rather than in the country where we are living. It's a cultural thing that exists, that you know. People have this. I don't know. People are physically in the diaspora, but mentally they are on the continent.
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah, definitely yeah.
Speaker 1:One can think of that as positive, but I also think to your point. It's like a small prison when it comes to investing and building wealth, because I know some people who just go 100% in and decide that their stay in the diaspora is temporary and their permanent ambition is to go back, and we all know from experience that that usually doesn't happen. You know, people stay here and stay here and they build and build and then suddenly they have maybe only five years when they go back to their home or country of origin to enjoy what they have built. That's great. One really needs to look at themselves and say, how can I have a good life? Where do I really want to live? And then maybe that affects how you invest.
Speaker 1:For those of us who have children who call Norway their home, then what you talked about with the 30%, we can't just look away. Can't just look away and pretend and say, oh no, it's just the rich people. That because at some point in history a parent decided to invest in a property. That's why the other kid, whether they're Norwegian, german, french or whatever, as long as they're living in Norway, in Europe, that's why they can inherit something. I think there's this fear to. I don't know, you know how sometimes like you get into a room and you'd feel like you don't belong in it. I think there is this inferiority with us Africans because I know, for example, asian friends who they don't earn a lot, they don't have like top paying job, they have nothing Like they've come here like me and you and they're building wealth here but they work together. So I don't know what your reflections are on that, on the different kinds of ownership and like the stereotypes that we have in our minds that are like holding us back that.
Speaker 2:That that's. That's a good point, because we in africa, we have this ubuntu thing which is uh, what was it?
Speaker 2:I am because you are you are, uh, that goes in the social part, but when it comes to investment, we're a bit we're on the other side of the pendulum. So it just it's a crazy mix and it is shifting. I would say so, and also I think it is. We need to be a bit more curious in place, or curious, learn from those that have done before, or read, for example let's just use an example.
Speaker 2:When you mentioned about Asians, in Norway, you have what they call the huge banking for people that have low income. I think it's low income, not quite sure. Yeah, low income. This is the bank that helps, uh, people that have low income, maybe single mother or yeah, so they have very low interest. And this is a good place to start. Talk to your bank, talk to your neighbors, talk to others, you know. So I think it is sick for information and all the information are there. We just have to be more, you know, more open, and I think also in our little um african groups, which we should really foster, this type of things it's not only about death celebration, uh, and dancing and all this eating, and you know we should. We should look into this, uh, this type of things very much, because if we need to set the trend for the next generation and to do that we have to get involved into this.
Speaker 2:I recall one friend of mine said to me Peter, how did you start in real estate? I remember when I and Ingbe we stood in Dianbe with 300,000 and the guy asked me you want to start a real estate company with 300 000? And the guy asked you want to start a real estate company with 300 000?
Speaker 1:you know, so so.
Speaker 2:So that is um we need to be able to to take that challenge.
Speaker 1:You know, um yeah if you don't know exactly what it it means to get into real estate, it is very hard to have practical tools, you know, and practical steps to how you actually will get in. So so I, I really, I really agree with you on that just to add to that, I think we are working on something.
Speaker 2:Maybe some, uh, we're working on something, so that will be out in this real estate education and stuff, yeah okay, so I'll be sure to tell us, so that we can.
Speaker 1:We can let people know. Yeah, but sure so we can let people know, because it's always about the knowledge, it's always about the. It gives you a head start, you know. It gives you some steps ahead of everyone else when you know what to do to move forward. And in the context of the diaspora, me and you have left our home, where we are quite familiar with how things are done, and we have chosen to to live in the diaspora and have our families far away from where our own families are, our other families are. How do you thrive in your new context? How do you make it your own, or how do you get the things that you long for or the things that you would want, and how do you make that happen? Since you're in real estate, I'm sure you have a rough idea also about neighbourhoods. So do you feel a sense of community in your neighbourhood where you have chosen to live?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Why I very much? Do why do you say so? What is it that makes you feel a sense of community where you live?
Speaker 2:I feel so because it is either me as a person or it's the community itself or both. So when we moved here in this part of town in Oslo we were young, not young, but I had my eldest son. Today we have lived there for more than 10 years. So the main thing was, I recall, we just went to work and come back. It's like you don't really know people that much, but when they start to in kindergarten, and noah elizabeth were born.
Speaker 2:They start in kindergarten. You start getting involved in the society and and if I'm involved, it's like, yeah, I went and checked which football program they have and then when they registered my son, then I was in Norway. I have this Duke thing it's the parents that helps the football trainers. So it's not like any profession. Nobody's been paid for that. So every monday it was tuesdays. Every tuesday I was there, you, the trainers. They come 15 minutes before, um, you know, set up the, the program. Luckily, uh, this is noah. Uh, this is noah. Uh, that's eight years today. But I've done this before around the Bollinger area where I was a football trainer for my eldest son that's playing for Bollinger today.
Speaker 2:So the main thing is get yourself involved and it's not a one-off thing. I know that people are busy with their job, whether it is school activities or whatever. We need to get ourselves involved in a continuous base, because someone's going to say, oh, I was there two weeks ago, I was. That's not enough. We have to be there all the time, also when they are playing football matches, when they have the tournament, when they have the activities, whether you know. So we need to be there and from there you start making friends that come from the parents of these kids and I think we have made good friends and it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:I would imagine that before you landed on football, you had some options also some options also.
Speaker 2:Definitely, it is, uh, it is. It is always good to to, because my uh, noah goes for free, right, he goes athletic, he runs and uh, and then elizabeth goes in gymnastic. So it's not only football. I just mentioned just the football.
Speaker 1:So they are doing different things and yeah, and dual things also, so yeah, so it's not just finding a club or finding a culture event, dance or whatever and putting the kid there and saying okay, and then you show up to pick them and that's it. It's more than that, because that might be the only channel also, I think, where we ourselves build relationships with the kids. That might be the time when you actually talk about other things with that particular child. You know like to engage in things that they probably don't want to tell you in front of all the other siblings, but also maybe that's a more loose environment for them to talk about what's happening at school, you know.
Speaker 2:Definitely. You know it's incredible the discussion I have with my eldest son or my kids when I'm dropping them, two and four activities is more than even, sometimes, the one that you have on the dinner table, because that is the time that just you and them and no one else.
Speaker 2:And they tell you things. They you know what, the challenges or certain things, or sometimes we don't even talk anything. That is our own time. It is an incredible moment. I don't know how, eunice, when I grew up I never had this opportunity and I remember the first day my son was playing football and I was being part of these activities. I was so proud more than even him playing football and tears ran down my eyes. I was like is this me seeing my son doing this? I don't know what feelings others have, but I tell Ingvild all the time Ingvild, do you feel what I feel? Because it's an incredible feeling for everyone. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one more thing is that before ending in football, it was one of the parents that called me and said Peter, you should be a football trainer. I said I've never played football before and you're calling me should be a football trainer. I said I've never played football before and you're calling me to be a football trainer. You know it was so difficult for me and but he insisted. After maybe one month again he called me and I said okay, I took the challenge and I took Volinga. Have this, they call it grassroot course for trainers. So I took it. It's just how to mediate with kids and all this stuff and it actually helped me quite a lot. And it helps I took it for the for Lev Gadas, 15 years today, and it helps now for Noah, that is eight years, and so so that's what I say get involved, not only just dropping the kids, but you know and try to take the theoretical part, to understand the dynamics, because you know our African world, bringing kids is different from Norway.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I'm glad that you point to to also about the, the tools, the skills that you would need to participate and and I think sometimes we're afraid I'm now speaking generally for africans in the diaspora. And now let me be specific to to norway is that you you will never know until you try. Sometimes it can be like intimidating, but in the end the question is, why are they going there? It's to have fun, is to learn about life in other ways, because no one can learn everything about life in front of a teacher in the school, and I think that is what we are lacking. Especially, I think about the children who are not as gifted in the classroom environment but excel in the other environment. Imagine if we ignore, if we ignore something like that.
Speaker 1:It could be their future and it could also and I've heard about children who are motivated, who learn discipline, they learn to listen to adults, they learn just even just routine. You know, because you know that the team is going to be waiting for you if you come late and those small little details in life that maybe are difficult to impart at home. When they learn in a group setting, I feel like there is a certain kind of growth that comes with being with other people outside the context of class and then learning that authority exists in different arenas, and then you have to actually relate with authority in many places and just to add to that, eunice in in this part of the town or I think it is the same in many parts is that you know, in the 2016 kids in our area there are 90 kids that play football.
Speaker 2:Just imagine your son is not in this, so it's more like that's the place to be.
Speaker 1:Netball was like the sport that was kind of like available for my sisters and I my two sisters, tina and Ruth. They were good, they were good, but I was glad to just tag around because that's where it was at, you know, that's where everyone else was meeting and I think also that's another thing that we should maybe communicate to our kids, that it is not everything that you're involved in. You have to be the best, but you should look for what is the best. I am getting from this right, yeah, and most of the time it is what you say uh, belonging absolutely I also have a certain observation growing up in uganda, uh, there is this thing where you are challenged.
Speaker 1:You have to be somebody, you have to make something out of yourself, especially because we carried that responsibility as children that if my mom and dad are using more than 50% of their income on education, that is delaying all the other dreams. We've talked about real estate. Most of our parents started to build for themselves later on in life yeah how do you encourage your kids to aspire to to greatness?
Speaker 2:I grew up with my mother. My mom is that type of person that never put pressure on anyone, but she was always there for us. I think she put indirect pressure, without you knowing so maybe I wasn't that so she was many steps ahead of us. She allowed us to do whatever we want to do within a confined area. So that's why I think that it feels like she didn't give you pressure, but there was indirect pressure. I would say so.
Speaker 2:And whenever we sit most of the time during dinner table, I try to tell my kids, especially the older one, like how I grew up and this and that, and the first thing that always come up is that come on now, papa, this can't be some transition into English. It's like papa, we're not going to be. Like how you grow up during the stone age. So I realized that to be able to navigate, this is to be we mentioned sport being there where they are involved in their social activities, involved in their school activities, and spending quality time with them, not quantity. In this aspect you are, and also we try to travel to Cameroon after every second year, so you are building things, giving them this resilience and like in a very subtle manner and not not like pushing it to them, because you can always. You heard his response, so so we have to be a bit more creative in in giving this to them.
Speaker 2:Uh sophisticated yeah, maybe I don't know. I think so, because that hard african way doesn't work. It will not work. It's going to push them away. Of course it comes out spontaneously sometime for me and I know that very well, but I have to constantly remind myself that I shouldn't use those hour. And it goes together with the when you are a football trainer for the kids or you are dealing with activity with the kid. You have to find a way that works. It's more easier to talk to them, explain things to them, and they say I read a book. The most difficult thing is to be patient and explain things to people to understand.
Speaker 2:And the result speaks for itself because that guy is playing football. Noah is holding the record in the Bekelegesport Club for 2024 for 60 metres distance and for long jump. Lefka won their team, won the Oslo Cup last year, so the result speaks for itself and this is a way of resilience. Won their team, won the Oslo Cup last year. So the results speak for itself. And then this is the way of resilience. They say take them, let activities take them more than other negative activities take them.
Speaker 1:Finally, just to wrap it up, at the end of every interview we ask our guests what their African aesthetic is. It can be a very philosophical question, but it can also be a very simple question that translates to what it means to you personally in your work. When you hear the word African and you being an African, what comes to mind?
Speaker 2:My African aesthetic is the word Ubuntu that I mentioned, and also the ability to celebrate even if the result is depressing.
Speaker 1:What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Because if you look at the African continent, the way it's been painted, or you go there, sometimes you see someone doesn't really have his shoes on, or maybe you know I'm looking out in the, really in the other side of the spectrum, you know. So we don't have to have the most luxurious car or the most luxurious house to be happy, so we have this gratitude. I think it's quite a and if you live in a country like Norway, you start seeing the importance of these little things. Sometimes I tell my kids all the time it's like they have how can I put it? It would have so much on his, so much. And then it was like, still. Sometimes it's like, oh, I want more, I want more. Please, thank you for the word and please you can be happy with this one that you have.
Speaker 2:And the next statement I always say to them is it doesn't mean that you're not craving for higher um value things. It just means that be happy with this and build on that. Yeah, so, so, yeah. And and then just to add to another one is that you know we, uh, you know the heads up, soldiers high. We should carry the African pride, you know. So I think this aspect are the things that are important to always remind ourselves.
Speaker 1:yeah, thank you so very much for giving us your time, giving us your wisdom and also just sharing, you know, tips from your parenting, giving us your wisdom and also just sharing you know, tips from your parenting toolbox. For us parents, parents of African descent in the diaspora, who are trying to, you know, juggle personal dreams, but also like family goals and family dreams. I'm very, very, very grateful that you have had the time to have this conversation. Thank you very, very, very grateful that you have had the time to have this conversation.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, eunice. When we started Fox Andom, we had a couple of meetings, and it's good to be here with you and I feel honoured. So thank you, ben.
Speaker 1:Thank you, have a nice day.
Speaker 2:You too.
Speaker 1:Bye.
Speaker 2:Bye now.
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