My African Aesthetic
This podcast is part of My African Aesthetic.
On this Podcast, we shed light on the central and important roles Africans themselves have had, have and will have in creating sustainable neighborhoods and communities around the globe.
Our work centers African Aesthetics, African design philosophy and placemaking. We do this through dialogue, project work, research, documentation and education.
This podcast features thoughtful, constructive and reflective conversations with architects, artists, curators, designers, creatives, activists, innovators, community leaders and African design enthusiasts.
We hope this podcast helps you expand and deepen your knowledge on African aesthetics, African design philosophy and placemaking and its role in creating inclusive and sustainable communities in Africa and beyond.
https://www.myafricanaesthetic.com/
My African Aesthetic
5.2. Dilú Matola: Mozambique. Portugal. Norway
Dilú Matola shares her inspiring journey from Mozambique to Norway, highlighting her passion for African culture and how it informs her work with AfroCraft; a social enterprise that merges cultural pride with innovation, bringing the beauty of African aesthetics to Norway through fashion. This episode explores Dilu’s commitment to representation, inclusivity, and the transformative power of African aesthetics in diverse contexts. You will hear about;
• Dilu’s upbringing during Mozambique's civil war and the impact of childhood experiences on her values
• The genesis of AfroCraft and the role of creativity in finding/ building community and preserving cultural authenticity.
• The significance of cultural aesthetics in fostering inclusion, connection, social integration and bridging cultural gaps.
• How AfroCraft embraces, compliments and contrasts different aesthetics and preferences.
Recorded: 12.10.2024
https://afrocraft.no/
Instagram: @myafricanaesthetic
Website: https://www.myafricanaesthetic.com/
Welcome to my African Aesthetic. On this podcast, we shed light on the central and important roles Africans themselves have had, have and will have in creating sustainable neighborhoods and communities in Africa and around the globe. Our work centers African aesthetics, african design philosophy and African placemaking, african design philosophy and African placemaking. We do this through dialogue, project work, research, documentation and education. This podcast features thoughtful, constructive and reflective conversations with architects, artists, curators, designers, creatives, activists, innovators, community leaders and African design enthusiasts. I hope this podcast helps you expand and deepen your knowledge on African aesthetics, african design philosophy and placemaking and its role in creating inclusive and sustainable communities in Africa and beyond. Thank you for tuning in. Welcome to my African Aesthetic, the podcast. We are on season five, episode two, and today I am very glad to introduce our guest, dilu Matola, who is from Mozambique. She says she belongs to the world, but she is based here in Oslo. Welcome to the podcast, dilu. We are very, very glad to have you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm very glad to be here.
Speaker 1:Well, we are very glad that you set some time aside to talk to us. We will just dive into it. Just to start us off, would you tell us a little bit about yourself, your upbringing and highlights of your childhood and your life just generally? Who is Dilu?
Speaker 2:Oh yes, as you said, I'm born and raised in Maputo, the capital of Mozambique. And yeah, I grew up in a family of five just my mother and my three other siblings. Five, just my mother and my three other siblings. It's not easy to talk about oneself. Maybe it's easier to say that I left Mozambique at the age of 23. Wow, so my childhood, my teenage time and early adult life was in Mozambique. There I started. I started to work, actually at the age of 15.
Speaker 1:What kind of work are you talking about when you said you started working at the age of 15?
Speaker 2:Oh yes, it was just like summer jobs and we would do it every summer.
Speaker 1:It was interviews it was like market studies, so yeah, Me and Dilu have known each other for quite a long time, so I think it's probably over 10 years now. And I remember, I think I met you through SAC, which is a Center for African Culture.
Speaker 2:Yes, when I was teaching dance there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you were teaching dance and I know that dance has always been one of your passions and I know that you've always said that you're passionate about your country, its traditions and also sharing it. Can you just say a bit more about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's just. How can I say Since I can remember. I always say this thing of I really love being Mozambican, African, I can say also black. I have a really deep passion about my culture, my roots. Even though I was a child, I always had already had this feeling that, okay, I need to do something for my country, because I could understand by that time I was a child.
Speaker 2:It was about the end of the civil war, the country was very, very poor and I didn't have like good experience. I don't have like really good memories about my childhood, but it's about like the environment. By that time you know a lot of poverty and seeing a lot of kids like sleeping outside, and there is many factors. So I had always this like, oh, I have to do something. So my dream was first get to know my country, mozambique, like traveling around that, traveling around Africa, and then I could travel to the diaspora to get knowledge and skills and then return to my country to use it there to make it better. I was always like a dreamer.
Speaker 1:Wherever I go, it's like everything inspires me, so I keep myself still more connected with my roots and my culture yeah, and sure those of us who know you can testify to this personality that you share with us here, because, I mean, you speak French Spanish. I mean you speak French Spanish, norwegian, portuguese English. And while we're still talking about languages, how has it been for you to learn Norwegian? I mean, how has the whole language experience been and like how you express yourself? I'm sure it's an advantage when you speak so many languages, but have you, do you have any thoughts about that?
Speaker 2:so I have Portuguese as my um is the official language in Mozambique, and then, English, spanish, french and Norwegian. So when I moved to Norway it was very tricky when I started to learn Norwegian, because I started to even forget Portuguese, you know, because I dived into like Norwegian, norwegian. But yeah, now I guess I'm better, or I can speak five languages, but not good at any of them.
Speaker 1:I'm sure many of us can resonate with that. I mean many of us who speak at least more than two languages. You always have to negotiate your words, your expressions and, like always, you have this tapestry of words and you're looking for the right word every time you're having a conversation. So thank you for sharing that with us, Dilu. We always find a way. We always find a way, you know, and one always hopes that the person on the other side understands the complexity of thinking in three, four and, for you, five languages. Well, I would like us to to pivot a little bit into AfroCraft, and I'm sure all these experiences feed into the birth of this project of yours, which became a business that is not only about money but also about your values. Could you please take us through this journey of yours to creating AfroCraft?
Speaker 2:Please take us through this journey of yours to creating AfroCraft. First, as I already said, I'm very passionate about my country and my culture. So before I was a dancer from Monday to Monday from Mozambique, and then when I went back I moved to Portugal, I also kept dancing not the same way I was dancing in Mozambique. And also when I moved to Norway though the lifestyle here is very, completely different I kept like trying to hold into the dance, but then after a while I knew that it was impossible, with the kids and learning Norwegian and studying and trying to integrate, you know. And then, well, I have the dance and then I have to, yes, give it, yeah, not giving it up, but I have to make space to embrace other, yeah, have other experiences. And, um, yeah, I started just with markets with a friend. I just have these like crazy friends that, yeah, let's go into this and that, and so I started to join her some markets and I started the first products before I had the name Afrocraft.
Speaker 2:I went home once and I found out that my sister-in-law, she's a tailor. So I was like, oh, we can do something with it. So we started with tote bags because I, you know, I look around, okay, what people use it the most. So it was tote bags and we started with. I just started with ThoughtBanks because I you know, I look around, okay, what people use it the most. So it was ThoughtBanks and we started with. I just started with it.
Speaker 2:And then it came like the pandemic. And then it was okay, no markets. So I just, yeah, started on Instagram, you know, and I was just okay, find a name for this On Instagram. It can just be you know, dilu, just like I can't find a name for this on Instagram, it can't just be you know, dilu, or something like that. So I was a little bit brainstorming and then, yeah, it just I can't remember like how I landed to Afrograph, but so, yeah, afrograph was it and yeah, and I was like, okay, I have nothing to lose, I will just try. And then I was like, okay, I can just keep holding into my culture, you know, in my roots, and at the same time I could help some people back home. So, yes, I just started was my products. If you can go and check on my Instagram, you will see it was only tote bags and also the face masks.
Speaker 2:By that time they were very popular and it just kept going. You know, it started to grow and people were very interested and I even had to learn how to make face masks because they sold out very fast and I had a chance to order again from Mozambique and bring here and yeah. So yeah, it was like that and after a while I just started to introduce more products and I was mostly with accessories. People are, you know, they like the colors, the patterns, but still, yeah, and until today. And then I registered the Afrocraft of Shelly you know company, and yeah. And then it's yeah, keep growing and growing. And yeah, now I introduced some clothes and I have the kimonos, the bomber jackets, the summer dresses and other accessories.
Speaker 1:Why do you insist on sourcing from Mozambique?
Speaker 2:Afrocraft is more than a shop. It's not like only about business. Of course, yes, we do have income, not only myself, but other people. But first of all, it's yeah, I'm from Mozambique, so it is my roots. For me, afrocraft is like a kind of also safe place and something that keeps remind not I don't know if I can say reminding me, but it's a piece um of's my roots, it's my people. So I make like a difference, not only for me, and both here in Norway and also home. Back home, I'm like empowering some women and here in Norway I'm like sharing my culture, and also not only about Mozambique but in general about the continent, because I have many conversations people like wondering and talking about and like asking questions oh, but I was in this country and that and I just, you know, talk and try to share, because some people also they see the continent as a country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's another thing, another topic for another time, I guess. But I have a question about your range of products. How do you choose what to have? And I'm asking this because you're registered in Norway, you live mostly here in Norway. You're registered in Norway, you live mostly here in Norway and I'm guessing you've had to learn to cater to the taste. But also, how has it been for you to interact with the Scandinavian aesthetic and how does the African aesthetic and its boldness and the colors and, to some point, flamboyant nature, how has this met the Norwegian aesthetic that we know as clean lines, grey, black, white, blue maybe how have you gone about this?
Speaker 2:As I said, my first products were like tote bags because it's like, yeah, what, everywhere, everyone here, uh is a lot. So it was like my first okay, we have a lot of tote bags, but we need like more, like stylish, colorful. And then I was like, okay, tote will be. And actually, yeah, all my products is like the inspiration comes from. You know, when I'm outside, I am very passionate about you know people, the way they dress, the way they walk, the way they talk, like here in Norway, it's a lot about design or the non-style. They have their own style. But also you have this like people are different, so they have their own style. I'm always looking around and even if I go to some shops, I mostly go to second hands and just trying to understand why make people like dressing this way. And then something I missed here is colors. Hey, we need colors Because most of the months here are very dark and everyone is going in dark, uh, like gray, black and it's beige white, very, very depressing.
Speaker 2:It's like the. It's already dark and white. Yeah, so I came up with this. Okay, I can maybe I'm not coming with a new design. You know we have thought bags from before, but the fabric is something else and it makes a difference and it bears with it like something. How can you say it's just not just a piece that you go by and there is a meaning back there. So, yeah, I get inspired with, like people everywhere, when I'm out working and even when I'm traveling, and yeah, so who is the ideal customer for Afrocraft?
Speaker 2:I've got this question like many times, but for me it's like people. Okay, yes, because also I have different products that fit everyone. It's like you know, no matter your age or you know, I have the tote bags, I have the fanny packs, and the fanny packs, for example, they are worn by kids, adults, teenagers, and the scarves, for example, they are worn by kids, adults, teenagers, and yeah, and the scars is the same, so I I don't put like people call oh, what's your niche?
Speaker 2:you have to know your clients I don't like to put like people in a box. So for me I'm open for everyone, because it's like, yeah, everyone can wear colors, everyone can, you know, um, dress the way they want. My, my clothes, my accessories is for everyone, you know, no matter your age, your, I don't know race your but shape, you know it's for everyone so yeah, I don't really have. I have both africans buying norwegians, people from other countries, and yeah, it's, yeah. What I I always say is like it's for everyone, I really don't, I don't have this.
Speaker 1:Oh, those are my clients and I guess I don't want to have it I also think what you're saying about like designing for all, it might seem like, oh, you have no purpose. You know, like, really, how are you going to? You know the market, you have to focus on the market. But then that brings me to I think we've talked about this before me and you to that whole concept of, in African generally, at least African traditional attire. If you look on the continent generally, that that there is, there is a certain uh, how do you say it's inclusive in a way, uh, it doesn't matter your size, like if you look at, for example, I'll say for uganda, because you have the gomesi, for example, or you have the mashanana it's, it's a flexible kind of uh cloth. You can have it all your life, almost like the middle section is always in such a way that you can wrap it or tie a belt or you can tie it on the side.
Speaker 1:If you look at the Maasai, it is, I feel like it is so forgiving and it's so inclusive of like all body types. So for me I think it's also very nice. When I look at your your, for example, the kimono I can see that you've thought about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most of the time. It's quite new that I'm coming with clothes, but I think one size fits all, so I try to make it in a way that everyone, or almost everyone, can wear it and you can style it in different ways. We can talk about the kimonos. I have both women, young and older and men that bought them and I have the long one, the short one, with belt, without belt.
Speaker 1:I think it also speaks to this global phenomena in fashion, where one has not has to, but one strives to stay authentic to, to to their brand and its values, but also one has got to appeal to, to their context. And in this case, you know you have products that are made in Africa, in Mozambique, and you are selling them in Norway or on the Internet, also around Europe. I mean they can order. But I think it's interesting to see how you translate, you know, this knowledge and this culture and what you're working with, and how you share it in your new context. Thank you very much for that. We haven't had a lot of time to talk about your educational background, but I would like to just let people know that you also have a full-time job. You have a job that you show up at and it's in a humanitarian organization. You have a job that you show up at and it's a humanitarian organization.
Speaker 2:How do you see your work, your nine to five, tying into what you do at AfroCraft?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I didn't mention it because it's still like I'm still cooking it in the oven. But I'm also like starting an organization in Mozambique that will be connected to the Afrocraft, so I'm making this organization to have projects that will work with women, so in a way, it will still be like a humanitarian work. So, yeah, I do learn a lot and, um, yeah, I'm actually very proud because I, like my dream was always like to help people. You know, I had this dream in my head, but I have like other timeline and it was like a period that was like, oh no, it won't happen, but it is really happening. But it didn't just happen the way, you know, I thought it would happen.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do get a lot from my job and even like for Afrocraft and for these other projects that I'm like diving into, and I mean you always learn, you know, even like in one or the other way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I'm very glad you've found a way to make it work, and it's very encouraging to hear you talk about all your different projects and also your job, and to see how each of them weaves into the other. What is it that makes you thrive here in Norway? How do you go about creating community and a good life in Norway?
Speaker 2:Oh, this is a big question, you know. I just try to find my place not only here, but in the world. So I don't know the society in general. It is what it is. And Norway is. I don't know, this country is very particular.
Speaker 1:In what sense? Because you've lived in Portugal. What are two things that you really think stand out about? Being Black and being Mozambican African in Portugal, and just your particular background. You're speaking for everyone.
Speaker 2:And Norway. Yeah, it's like I don't know. Like my my experience, I can start from Mozambique. I met a lot of foreigners there, but I need, I never had this. When they meet you, they start with those questions. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. In Norway they have a kind of standard questions. You know, I never done it in Mozambique when I like met a lot of foreigners and when I moved.
Speaker 2:Portugal. I never had this kind of question. It's like oh, what's your name, dilu, and that's it. We just hang around and maybe later, when people are talking about something else, it would come. Oh, but are you from Mozambique?
Speaker 1:It comes naturally in other contexts.
Speaker 1:You feel like your first interaction generally as a black person is always an interrogation rather than genuine interest yes, yeah, but I, I can, I can totally understand, you know, I know also in uganda, but generally east africa, we're also used to having foreigners, you know, tourists, you know and all that and and for us in our context, we're also generally very welcoming people. We don't have like a very, you know, that intimate owner and everything. So it's like we have that way of interacting with people where it's like oh yeah, okay, you're there, okay, welcome, you know. Okay, you're from nowhere, okay, okay, what are you doing?
Speaker 1:and you know, we totally jump onto the person as as a general citizen of the world. Oh, you're traveling and all that, while I feel like most africans, like you said, when they're, when they're it come the first meeting or the first interaction with, especially norwegians here it's more like, oh yeah, so who are you? So? Are you? Are you norwegian? Are you? How long have you been here?
Speaker 1:you know, it's more like they want to put you in a box immediately and it's like, oh, you're taking away all the mystery and all the fun of getting to know me.
Speaker 2:Yes, you would need like a whole podcast to talk about this.
Speaker 1:I totally agree. Anyways, we have to wrap up and, as we do that, I'm wondering if there are any lessons that you've learned on your journey so far, and what advice would you give to young people who are in the same space as you, probably doing the same things as you're doing?
Speaker 2:just don't be afraid, don't underestimate your roots, your skills, your passion, and just do. It starts from where you are, from what you have. You know, this is the way I've done and it works. You know, I didn't have like a huge network here and, yeah, I just opened this Instagram page and was out there like following people. Yeah, I wasn't afraid, you know to be there. You know, I was always like, oh, like putting my face out there, I don't know, and I was just okay.
Speaker 2:You know, you just have to do it and that's it you know, yeah, start with what you have, because people usually they're like, oh, but I have to do it and that's it. You know, do. Yeah, start with what you have, because people usually they're like, oh, but I have to have this, and that I've talked to a lot of people. They're like, oh, you're so good, and you don't like no, I just, you know, I don't give myself a choice, you know, and no excuses, just trying and then finding out, oh, this is working. Oh, no, this is not working. Oh like, people are reacting more to this when I oh, no, this is not working oh like people are reacting more to this when I do this way and not that way.
Speaker 2:So you, you know you're learning, I learned a lot, you know a lot, a lot, a lot. So it's like just, yeah, go there, don't be afraid, don't overthink. I know it's not easy, but yeah. And also there is something like some africans, the people they ask, oh, but people buy it. You know, it's like they're not. Yeah, maybe, I don't know if they're not confident about our culture. You know, about our materials, about our I don't know. There is something when they ask me this question why wouldn't people buy, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there is that inferiority of thinking that people will not like it.
Speaker 2:It's not, doesn't appeal to anyone. Yeah, because it's like African or I don't know. There is something that's still in, I don't know if it's, I don't know. Like the African is not good enough you know, so yeah, and I'm just saying no, no, and the most important is that you like it, you are confident. Everything I sell is everything that I would wear. Actually, I have one, I just say one.
Speaker 1:One outfit for everything, one for yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, more than one. When I summer dresses, oh my god I want to call them for me, but like, yeah, it's like you have to like it yeah, one of the questions also is like this uh, back when we started, why did you choose particularities? You know it's because it's something that I, like I would never sell or, you know, know, share with other people something that I don't believe in or I don't like it. You know, I wear everything I have.
Speaker 1:You really appeal to like everyday life and I think that's also very appealing. You know it kind of makes it I don't know wearable. So thank you very much, dino, for that. We will remember not to be afraid, just do it and then learn as we go.
Speaker 1:Uh, we usually wrap up the podcast by asking our guests a question about african aesthetics, because that is what we are exploring on this podcast, and and we because we're exploring whatever you say is right, if you know what I mean, because, because it is your African aesthetic. What does African aesthetics mean to you personally or in the context of your work, or what words come up? What are you thinking when you hear the word African aesthetic?
Speaker 2:Well, for me, african aesthetic means making a difference, both home and abroad. Afrikaans means everything, and it's about being. It's about also being away, but being there. You know we are not home, but we still are home but we still are home and it's about giving and sharing and it's not about winning. And yeah, but not losing either.
Speaker 1:So it's like the culture, the way of living, inclusion and widening in space and time, and I guess maybe it can, as you say change by time to time, or I don't know where you are, or yeah, it's very interesting, this question that we usually ask at the end, because it means a lot to us. We want to point, you know, we want to really put that out there because it has a lot to do with our identity as.
Speaker 1:Africans on the continent and in the diaspora, and I think the more we have these expressions that we can identify with and resonate with, and I think it makes life easier identify with and resonate with, and I think it makes life easier.
Speaker 2:You know, yes, and something just to Africans that came to me. It's like, oh my god, you are so good in representing us and you know keeping our culture up. I wish I could. I don't even have any African peace. You know, like sometimes like they feel guilty and you know it's, but I'm like, no, don't, because you have some. They are like Africans, but born in Norway, so they sometimes have a chance to go to back home. Or some of them home is here in Norway but they still have this thing inside. Their home is here in Norway, but they still have this thing inside. So I got many that was like, oh, I need something to make me feel. Or I was like, don't feel bad if you don't have. You know, maybe you grew up here. You didn't have any.
Speaker 1:If you don't go home and your parents they don't, it feels so distant. And then to see, to see an outfit that they can buy, that is stylish, it's like, oh, I have something, something that can you know. I can like wrap my hands around it and say this is part of my identity, this kind of I don't know if that, if that helps to to bring home, yeah, but there is something also.
Speaker 2:I used to say this about leaving home Not everyone leaves because they want, or sometimes they do. It's like we love the continent when we're talking generally, but sometimes the continent like forces us to leave. Yes, so I understand that some people they just left and they I don't know how there is a good way to, and this is home for them.
Speaker 1:But like you say, the African aesthetic. It is both home and abroad and they want to reconnect. And I feel, like your business, your work and your outfit, it's also a way to reconnect.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is Because I've seen many people that, like, after talking to me, they were like, wow, it was so inspiring. Now I have, you know something, I feel more African, or it's about Afrocraft. You know you need this, yeah, so everyone is more about just selling clothes like African. It's a lot of it, it's a lot. So, yeah, actually I'm very proud of myself, Rightfully, so you should be proud of yourself. And also I have to thank you, Eunice. You are a good, really good supporter. So again, like, okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you very much for making the time to be on our podcast. We again would like to say that we appreciate you and we appreciate you sharing your journey, but also your thoughts on African aesthetics and what your work means for the diasporan community African diasporan community but also where you come from, in Mozambique. So thank you very much, delu. We're so glad to have you and we look forward to more conversations and collaborations and we meet for a coffee soon.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much thank you if you enjoyed listening to this episode, then I'd encourage you to visit our website or follow us on our socials for updates on our work and opportunities to collaborate or support our work. Remember to subscribe, leave a review, reach out to us or share this podcast with other people that might be interested in this content. Thank you for joining us today.